math phd salary reddit

PhD Stipends

Welcome to PhD Stipends!

The purpose of this site is to share information about what PhD students in many disciplines at universities all over the US are being paid (i.e. income from stipends, fellowships, research or teaching assistantships, internships, etc.).

Please fill out the survey below to help add to our database and then check out the answers that other PhD students have provided.

Enter Your Stipend Skip to the Data -->

or Skip to the Data

Thank you for contributing to the database and enjoy perusing the data! After you submit your data, please share this website through social media so that a greater number and variety of grad students can contribute.

• Search forums

Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.

Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.

• Career Advice

PhD salary not too high?

• Thread starter Thread starter MMF
• Start date Start date 9/9/19

I am currently a PhD student studying math and I was speaking to one of the professors the other day who told me too many students intend to land a QF job upon graduation with the expectation of getting a big salary but how that's far from the truth. Forgive me if I'm being ignorant, and I know it's highly variable, but I thought with a PhD from a solid school you'd be making at least $200k+/year?  

IntoDarkness

Undergrad with couple years of exp can make 300k phd should triple that  

IntoDarkness said: Undergrad with couple years of exp can make 300k phd should triple that Click to expand...

binomial-torrent

I was thinking mid to mid-high six figures for phd, and if by couple of years u mean like 5, then yea  

quantsmodelsbottles said: I was thinking mid to mid-high six figures for phd, and if by couple of years u mean like 5, then yea Click to expand...

Yes, for the first year, 200k is quite likely close to average salary. If you've done extraordinary work and are recruited by top tier, then it can be multiples of that. Avg is close to 200k for a good shop, low as 100k for research part of a custody bank, different geography. @IntoDarkness is correct wrt entry level quant analyst (at least on buy side) growing from 100- 300k after a couple of years. PhD scales similarly, and there's a lot more upside. Perhaps your professor is conflating initial salary with net present value?  

Onegin said: Yes, for the first year, 200k is quite likely close to average salary. If you've done extraordinary work and are recruited by top tier, then it can be multiples of that. Avg is close to 200k for a good shop, low as 100k for research part of a custody bank, different geography. @IntoDarkness is correct wrt entry level quant analyst (at least on buy side) growing from 100- 300k after a couple of years. PhD scales similarly, and there's a lot more upside. Perhaps your professor is conflating initial salary with net present value? Click to expand...

quantsmodelsbottles said: Is the scaling really that quick? I'm on the buy side and am going to take home around 90-100k first year, including bonuses at all (there is a sign on bonus but with conditions attached so I just discount its value by 50-70%) Click to expand...

gotta pump those numbers up 100k is rookie number in this racket  

IntoDarkness said: gotta pump those numbers up 100k is rookie number in this racket Click to expand...

quantsmodelsbottles said: Got in with low GPA so I'm not complaining but it should resolve itself in a few years if I perform well, I'd imagine Click to expand...

MMF said: What kind of a degree did you have? Click to expand...

quantsmodelsbottles said: bachelors in mathematics from a semi-target (think >20 but <50 ranking wise) Click to expand...

What would be a reasonable base as an mfe graduate with no prior experience? On the ranking page I'm seeing 100k but here it's 300k+? I'm confused  

Similar threads

• Education Advice

• martinbutler

• This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. Accept Learn more…

• Press Enter to activate screen reader mode.

Department of Mathematics

Thanks to its international focus, the Department of Mathematics offers doctoral students the best possible start to a career in academic or industrial research. A doctorate usually takes between three and five years.

The Department of Mathematics offers a broad spectrum of research areas for doctoral students ranging from pure mathematics, such as algebra, analysis, geometry, number theory or probability, to more applied mathematics, such as insurance mathematics, finance, mathematical physics, numerical analysis, operations research and statistics.

About twenty to thirty doctoral students complete their doctoral thesis at the Department every year: overview of upcoming and successfully passed doctoral examinations.

Research environment

Doctoral students work as scientific assistants and are employed for up to six years. They attend the external page Zurich Graduate School in Mathematics.

The benefits are:

• internationally highly respected professors
• research funded by the external page Swiss National Science Foundation
• offices in the ETH Zurich Main Building
• access to the Mathematics Library and the ETH Library , access to online publications
• conferences organised by the Forschungsinstitut für Mathematik to support the scientific exchange of ideas

Teaching activities

Passing on knowledge to future mathematicians, other scientists and engineers is a key part of doing doctoral studies at ETH Zurich. The teaching workload depends on the doctoral student's salary level. Teaching generally comprises:

• teaching exercise classes
• organising exercises for a lecture
• assisting in student seminars
• interacting with the lecturer and/or teaching assistants (undergraduate students)
• providing assistance for lectures ranging from basic mathematics for biologists to advanced lectures for mathematicians
• coordinating and correcting exams

Additional courses

Research lives from acquiring knowledge about current theory and discussing it with experts. During the regular doctoral studies, at least 12 ECTS credits must be acquired to cover the following objectives:

• Deepening of knowledge in the research field of the doctoral thesis and expansion of knowledge beyond the original discipline
• Acquisition of transferable skills
• Integration into the scientific community  

Courses and seminars:

• wide variety of high-level lectures, minicourses and student seminars: see ETH Zurich Course Catalogue or external page graduate courses offered by the Zurich Graduate School in Mathematics
• Reseach seminars organised by professors and research groups where experts from different mathematical fields give talks and exchange their knowledge
• The FIM - Institute for Mathematical Research and the Institute for Theoretical Studies invite academic guests for scientific exchange

Life in Zurich

• largest city in Switzerland with a top ranking for quality of life
• charming medieval old town very close to the ETH Main Building and the Department
• fantastic water activities, winter sports or hiking because of the lake and the Alps within close proximity
• variety of cultural events and night life, very cosmopolitan  

Further activities

• The external page Zurich Graduate School of Mathematics (ZGSM) organises language courses and social events such as barbecues and fondue dinners.
• The Association of Scientific Staff at ETH (AVETH) and the Association of Academic Staff at the D-MATH (VMM) represent the interests of doctoral students and organise events.
• The external page Academic Sports Association Zurich (ASVZ) offers a wide range of sports that fulfil every wish.

More Information

• chevron_right ETH Zurich – Doctorate
• chevron_right Student portal – Doctorate
• chevron_right Welcome Center
• chevron_right Continuing education in university teaching
• external page call_made German courses (ZGSM)
• external page call_made Language center

Legal matters

• chevron_right Ordinance on Doctoral Studies at ETH Zurich
• chevron_right Rector’s Implementation Provisions for the Ordinance on Doctoral Studies 2021

Associations

• protected page lock VMM – Association of the academic mid-level faculty at D-MATH
• chevron_right AVETH – Association of Scientific Staff at ETH
• chevron_right AVETH – Survival Guide

Stack Exchange Network

Stack Exchange network consists of 183 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow , the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers.

Q&A for work

Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search.

First job in industry for a pure, pure mathematics folk

this is an "almost" Ph.D. in pure maths who's got a few reasons to look for a job in the industry.

I know that many choices are out there for a math guy: finance, consulting, industrial research, big data analysis, machine learning...

My main problem is that I have a very theoretical background, mainly in metric and geometric topology. In the last years, I've been decently active in learning a few programming languages (mainly C++ and Python) and some fundamentals in both supervised and unsupervised machine learning.

I would love to find a job in this interesting area, and I believe it is a sector which is quickly expanding, given its many applications. Research jobs in the industry would be appealing too, but I believe they would require a bigger amount of knowledge in probability and partial differential equations, which I do not know. Any job which makes use of maths in a creative and stimulating way, to solve real-world problems, would be appreciated.

Looking for job ads, I realised there's not much choice for people who have such a theoretical background as me. I would be interested in any advice regarding how to switch from a pure maths position to an applied one. Unfortunately, I can't go through more courses, as I need some financial support and I could not afford paying for an additional master or any other specific course in applied maths.

Ideally, I guess I'm looking for a company which is willing to allow its employees some period of training, before they start with the actual work.

I'm currently based in the UK, but I wouldn't mind moving to a different european country.

Thank you in advance for any recommendations you might suggest!

• soft-question
• career-development

• 2 $\begingroup$ Related at Academia.SE: Are there any research careers except professorship for a person holding PhD in pure mathematics? $\endgroup$ –  Stephan Kolassa Commented Feb 25, 2019 at 16:21

6 Answers 6

I disappointed a number of interviewers when I had to explain that model theory was not much to do with mathematical modelling...

I suspect you overestimate the amount of maths needed for quantitative work in industry. You have had a training in structural understanding of hard numerical or abstract problems, and this is valuable in itself. Quantitative people are rare.

For me it was easy to learn on the job all the statistics needed for work as a hedge fund analyst: really an introductory textbook on econometrics covered everything general, and for specifics the tools used by the firm were in front of me. In effect you are given a set of levers, and it's quick to discover what they do. Basic reading on the efficient market hypothesis, say, would have done me far more good at interview and for the first months of the job than boning up on Ito calculus.

So you really needn't hamstring yourself by saying you'll need training before you can start.

Further, I'd suggest it's a mistake to be hung up on "using maths". There are real-world problems that you, as a mathematician, are able to get to grips with better than everybody else. Real problems are worth solving in their own right (especially if you find more socially valuable work than the financial industry) and it's this that gives them interest, rather than the particular tools you use to crack them.

• 1 $\begingroup$ Since people are still finding this answer helpful four years on, let me advertise my employers at the (UK) Government Operational Research Service. The government faces many of the most complex and important problems, and OR is about providing the best evidence and optimal choices for decisions affecting millions of people. And it's interesting work also bringing in aspects of economics, statistics and data science. This afternoon I've been proving formal properties of a metric on different cuts of a particular data set: not deep maths, but real maths. $\endgroup$ –  HTFB Commented Feb 8, 2019 at 15:54

I wish I could give you a more optimistic answer, but unfortunately I don't think there isn't much out there for pure math besides academia. Here's what I can think of offhand:

1) Government labs and research facilities. Defense is huge, of course, and cryptography in particular loves mathematics. You may be uncomfortable with the moral nature of the work, the security requirements, relocating, etc., but it is a sector that aggressively recruits and hires theoretical mathematicians. Also, having a PhD is considered highly desirable there, while it often isn't elsewhere in industry. (The situation may differ in the UK versus the US.)

2) Industry labs. Bell Labs in its heyday is probably the best example here. Unfortunately, there are few industry labs left; in the United States, for example, the behemoth tech companies like Google and Microsoft have genuine pure research departments, but that's about it. There are lots of tech-based start-ups that would be amenable to conducting applied research on specific topics, but there's little support for general, abstract research.

3) Start your own start-up. It would allow you to work on something that you genuinely enjoy, but it's probably not a great idea if money is an immediate concern.

4) Finance companies, software companies, etc. like to hire mathematicians. They prefer physicists (probably for all the data analysis involved in it), but they do look upon a mathematical background with favor.

Those are the options for pure mathematicians who want to continue to work as pure mathematicians, or at least invoke their pure mathematical background. You shouldn't feel obligated, however, to do so. Honestly, you should be able handle even the applied math in industry without any difficulty. It's not that such positions are unchallenging; rather, it's that there really isn't much high-level math involved in most industry work, especially in the positions you're likely to be applying for so soon after finishing your degree. Although industry likes people with quantitative and abstract reasoning skills, there's not much market for advanced mathematics specifically. Even abstract computer science, for example, isn't used as often as you'd expect at a software company. As such, companies are often reluctant to pay for employees to take classes in more abstract subjects. They will often help with obtaining degrees, but that's not helpful if you're finishing up a doctorate. I'll also point out that the cultures in most industry places are very different from math PhD programs', and it might be difficult to switch jump from marketing yourself as an attractive research candidate to marketing yourself as an attractive employee effectively.

On the other hand, one advantage you have is that your background in math shows that you're capable of picking up new and difficult concepts quickly, which employers do like. Even if you don't have, say, the particular PDE class a recruiter is looking for, you can demonstrate that you could do the research on your own and pick up the material independently if it comes up over the course of the work. There are companies that are willing to invest in someone who is clever and talented, yet doesn't have the exact transcript or background they're looking for. (It's nontrivial to find such companies, but they do exist.) Another possibility is to find a company that works on something you're interested in (e.g., machine learning), take a more entry-level position even if it's only tangentially related to your actual topic of interest, and work your way up the chain.

Or, more briefly: It's hard to find a job in industry that involves a lot of math, but it's not hard to find a job in industry in general with a pure math background.

As a graduate in pure math after a masters from Cambridge with top grades and having recently come through the road of getting a great first offer from industry I feel obliged to give my advice.

Zero: if you're indeed extremely smart and is motivated by money (who isn't to some degree?), you might like to try for things like Jane Street, Optiver or Citadel which doesn't need too much/any experience. If not...

One: if you don't have much previous experience in industry, you must expect the process to be very painful and be mentally prepared. I had over 10 rejections before my first offer (and that's rejections after getting through the first stage of the assessment process, the number's more like over 20 if you count the submitted applications). At first I felt depressed because I had spent so long learning so many difficult pure maths concepts only for it to all go down the drain in terms of industry requirements. Because I had attended a careers presentation by a PhD graduate who said exactly the same thing, it made the experience much easier to handle. When you get rejected always ask for feedback and ask yourself what you could have improved. I think this mental aspect is most important, don't fool yourself into thinking "I've got a PhD so I can walk into a great job in industry without extra effort". You have to do something extra.

Two: it's good that you mentioned data science. That's what I ended up focussing on as well! One great thing is that you can take free courses online. E.g. the Coursera machine learning course, and that takes only two or three days to complete if you do it full time. Also you can prove your skills on Kaggle which seems to be industrially recognised. Other MOOCs of note: Udemy, Udacity, KhanAcademy. The former two cost some money but way less than a masters say.

And good luck finding your dream job!

You could get a job with the NSA, or the British equivalent. People who have worked for these agencies tell me it is very interesting.

• 2 $\begingroup$ British Equivalent == GCHQ. Based in Cheltenham if I'm not spelling that wrong. I've heard great things. $\endgroup$ –  amcalde Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 1:53
• 3 $\begingroup$ Of course, many argue that it is unethical to work for or even cooperate with these agencies given their well-known undermining of cryptographic standards , to say nothing of their questionable intelligence-gathering methods. See discussion in the Notices of the AMS and the newsletter of the London Math. Soc. (the latter link is indirect and contains further discussion.) $\endgroup$ –  tcamps Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 1:58
• 1 $\begingroup$ @tcamps isn't intelligence gathering inherently questionable, and shouldn't a national security agency avoid using standards? Do you suggest that we all love and trust one another, or at least if we don't we should only spy using ethical methods? $\endgroup$ –  Matt Samuel Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 2:55
• $\begingroup$ There's one factual point I'd like to clarify. I'm not saying that the NSA doesn't use cryptographic standards. I'm saying that in the Bullrun program, the NSA took advantage of NIST's trust in their mathematical expertise to deliberately insert backdoors into NIST cryptographic standards such as SP 800-90A . This standard uses elliptic curves, and many mathematicians feel betrayed by this use of their research and of their reputation. $\endgroup$ –  tcamps Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 4:03
• 1 $\begingroup$ GCHQ and NSA were well ahead of unclassified mathematicians in classical crypto: they got to RSA before Rivest & co. (or claimed so in papers made public in the late 90s), etc. So it's not clear that they betrayed the maths community specifically. Evidently most of their work now is on intercepting the mass communication channel of the internet rather than decrypting ambassadors' telegrams, so the work will be more programming and network analysis than number theory. Quite possibly machine learning is valuable to them: anything to help pick signal from noise. $\endgroup$ –  HTFB Commented Jan 9, 2015 at 9:26

I have seen scientists in industry who have gone on to attain an M.S. in Information Security/Computer Science, and then joined a national lab, who have a shortage of such people. Pure mathematics is in essence, InfoSec, so try to get a CEH or CISSP certification, and go from there. You'll see the difference. I have worked in a national lab and I have seen that people like you would be highly valued.

Being a pure math guy like you can be at disadvantage because most companies look for applicable skills. Have you looked into actuary ? that is the closest field that relates to math. Many insurance firms are willing to take a math major and train them to become an actuary. So your best bet is to pursuit a career in actuary. You need to have plan B when you do pure math. Unless you are at the top of the food chain ( an IMO gold medallist or silver medallist ), then you can be secure for a academia job after graduation ( with a PhD ). If not you will need a plan B. Try to send out resume to insurance companies and see the responses. Banks also hire math major and you can be trained to become a financial analyst. Try banks as well. Math is a competitive field and most math majors are not fully aware about this fierce competition. Its all about "publish or perish" thing in math unfortunately. Average or slightly above average guys can have a tough path. You own the field if you are an IMO medallist. Look up the history of successful folks in (pure) math. 95% of them are prize winners at high school level.

• 8 $\begingroup$ I would really like to read some comments to this quite pessimistic answer by other experienced mathematicians. $\endgroup$ –  aerdna91 Commented Dec 29, 2014 at 15:16
• 2 $\begingroup$ I would like to see your list of successful folks in pure mathematics. $\endgroup$ –  Milo Brandt Commented Dec 30, 2014 at 2:03
• 5 $\begingroup$ This answer is entirely beside the point. The OP isn't asking about staying in academia. As you say it is a tough business and the OP, at the end of his or her PhD, will have a good idea of the chances of landing a postdoc if they wanted one: but they don't. Off-topic, you are completely wrong about the importance of 6th-form maths prizes to academia. The only people ever to show the slightest interest in my Olympiad results were a hedge fund. I would say that ability (and interest) at applying a small toolkit to well-defined problems is much more like industrial maths than like research. $\endgroup$ –  HTFB Commented Jan 2, 2015 at 12:59
• 10 $\begingroup$ I wouldn't say an IMO medalist is at the top of the food chain. A math competition is not research. Competition problems are tricky but unravel quickly once you find the right idea. Research is nothing like that. $\endgroup$ –  Matt Samuel Commented Jan 5, 2015 at 2:04
• 3 $\begingroup$ You don't own the field if you are an IMO medalist. $\endgroup$ –  guest Commented Jan 6, 2015 at 19:25

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for browse other questions tagged soft-question career-development ..

• Featured on Meta
• User activation: Learnings and opportunities
• Preventing unauthorized automated access to the network
• A Limited Advertising Test on this Site

Hot Network Questions

• How long has given package been deferred due to phasing?
• Could you compress chocolate such that it has the same density and shape as a real copper coin?
• Why would an escrow/title company not accept ACH payments?
• Expected value of a matrix = matrix of expected value?
• What is the smallest interval between two palindromic times on a 24-hour digital clock?
• I want a smooth orthogonalization process
• How to push 10-ft long 4" PVC pipe into 90-deg Elbow Hub?
• is it okay to mock a database when writing unit test?
• Navigating My Farewell: Insights for Managing My Exit
• Were Soviet doctors and nurses actually as callous as "Voices from Chernobyl" portrays in the prolog?
• Do all languages distinguish between persons and non-persons?
• Why did the Apollo 13 tank #2 have a heater and a vacuum?
• What is the simplest formula for calculating the circumference of a circle?
• Is BitLocker susceptible to any known attacks other than bruteforcing when used with a very strong passphrase and no TPM?
• The answer is not ___
• What made scientists think that chemistry is reducible to physics and when did that happen?
• An everyday expression for "to dilute something with two/three/four/etc. times its volume of water"
• How can the doctor measure out a dose (dissolved in water) of exactly 10% of a tablet?
• CH in non-set theoretic foundations
• Is there a faster way to find the positions of specific elements in a very large list?
• Can a floppy disk be wiped securely using the Windows format command with the passes-parameter?
• God and Law of Identity Paradox
• How do Cultivator Colossus and bounce lands interact?
• Undamaged tire repeatedly deflating

PhD in Mathematics Salary (2024 Update)

The most apparent reason to consider a PhD in mathematics is the salary. For private industry jobs, math PhDs earn high starting wages. In fact, salaries for math PhDs are among the highest for any advanced degree, especially when employed in technology.

According to PayScale.com, the average salary for math PhDs is $106,000 .

One reason salaries are so high: a PhD in mathematics qualifies individuals for some of the best-paying jobs in data science and machine learning. For example, PhDs in math commonly land senior data scientist roles ( $130,000/year ) and machine learning engineer jobs ( $120,000 ).

Yet, beyond salary, you might be wondering: Is a PhD in mathematics worth it? Sure, the degree results in a salary bump, but the trade-offs include opportunity costs (these programs usually take 3-5 years to complete) and they do require you to learn skills on your own like analytics, SQL and Python.

Below we’ve taken a closer look at math PhD salaries. Read on for a look at salaries by job title, PhD in math salaries vs. other fields, and if a PhD in math is good for a data science career. Afterward, we explore the other considerations for your decision-making by also checking the most up-to-date data science salary statistics.

PhD in Math: Salary by Job Title

Math PhDs that seek private industry jobs tend to fall into three areas: IT, finance, or business administration. In terms of IT careers, some of the best starting salaries for math PhDs are in data science, with many jobs starting at $120,000+.

Here is a look at some of the top private industry data science jobs for math PhDs, as well as their starting salaries in data science :

• Data Scientist: $106,000
• Senior Data Scientist: $130,000
• Lead Data Scientist: $143,000
• Quantitative Analyst: $100,000
• Machine Learning Engineer: $120,000
• Senior Machine Learning Engineer: $150,000
• Research Scientist: $98,000

Source: PayScale.com

PhD in Math Salary vs Other Fields

PhDs in math earn some of the highest wages of all STEM PhDs, behind just a small set of subjects including computer science and engineering. The industry you enter does have a significant effect on salary however.

Almost all PhDs who go into teaching and academia, for example, earn a similar median wage of around $75,000. For private industry jobs, PhDs earn significantly more.

According to the 2019 Survey of Doctorate Recipients , math PhDs have the fourth-highest median salary once they are in the field of IT:

• Computer Science - $162,000/year
• Electrical Engineering - $160,000/year
• Engineering (All fields) - $149,000/year
• Mathematics and Statistics - $148,000/year
• Industrial Engineering - $145,000/year
• Physics - $144,000/year
• Physical Science - $131,000/year
• Economics - $114,000/year

Source: National Center for Science and Engineering Statistics

According to the survey, math PhDs also command high median salaries in the fields of management, sales or administration ( $164,000 ) and professional services ( $142,000 ). Considering another PhD program? See our salary guides for PhD in economics and PhD in statistics .

PhD in Math for Data Science

Mathematics PhDs receive training and experience that is relevant to data science careers, and provide training to others on a number of subjects that data scientists use every day. For instance, a PhD program in math would provide training in:

• Experimental design and research
• Working with complex, real-world datasets
• Math and statistics
• Researching or advancing new methods and techniques

In particular, many tech companies hire PhDs for research and development (R&D) roles. A PhD is often a required or preferred qualification, especially in the roles of Research Scientist and Machine Learning Scientists for example. In these positions the main responsibility of the scientist is to help advance machine learning or data science exploration for the company.

As such, PhDs in data science roles typically research and/or develop new algorithms or create machine learning libraries. They can also be asked to provide leadership on a niche specialization like machine learning, computer vision, or robotics.

With advanced degrees becoming increasingly common in data science – within the industry more than 80% have a master’s or PhD – a math PhD can help make you more competitive for a data science job. In fact, mathematics is the No. 2 subject amongst data scientists holding a PhD, according to the Burtch Works 2021 Salary survey :

Is a PhD in Mathematics Worth It?

Looking only at median salary, a math PhD is a valuable investment. But the PhD cannot be taken in a vacuum, and it is important to evaluate the other skills you may need to invest in for a private sector employer. Programming and SQL knowledge being high among them.

To help understand some of the other aspects of pursuing this advanced degree, we talked with a math PhD who now works in the data science field. They highlighted five areas to give thought to before committing to a program:

Consider a master’s first - An accelerated master’s program can help prepare you for a PhD, as well as help you better understand if you want to make the commitment. And you can complete a master’s program in as little as one year.

Do you like teaching? - Math PhDs typically are required to teach undergraduate students. If you are not interested in teaching, or you don’t like it, a PhD in math might not be right for you.

Why do you want to pursue a PhD? Answer this question. You should be able to articulate exactly why you want to make this commitment, and you should be able to explain it to someone outside of the field. If you understand your motivations, you will be more likely to succeed.

Consult with an advisor - Ask a potential advisor about the work they do. This will help you better understand the PhD research component. Hint: It should interest and excite you. If it sounds tedious, chances are, you likely won’t excel in a PhD program.

Know where you want to focus - If you are interested in a career in data science, you should focus your research in an area that is applicable to the career you want. Some research areas that are applicable to data science include: algorithms, machine learning, deep learning and artificial intelligence.

Beyond these questions, you also have to bear the opportunity costs. Completing a PhD requires a significant investment of time, typically five to six years, and can incur significant expenses, both in the direct (tuition) or indirect (delayed earnings).

Let’s briefly expand on those costs. PhD candidates usually earn a stipend of about $35,000 / year, and depending on the program, may have to pay tuition. If you stack that up against the earnings you are delaying – starting salaries for master’s in data science programs can start at $126,000 / year – you can calculate as your opportunity cost roughly $90,000 / year, starting your second year (the first year would be required for an accelerated master’s regardless).

Weigh all of the factors we’ve discussed here in your decision: starting and median salary, on the job responsibilities and opportunities, alternative pathways to your goals, and associated costs. With all of this aggregated knowledge and the linked resources we’ve sprinkled throughout, you are well on your way to making the best choice for your career!

• Communities Pre-Med Medical Resident Audiology Dental Optometry Pharmacy Physical Therapy Podiatry Psychology Rehab Sci Veterinary
• What's new Trending New posts Latest activity
• Support Account Help Confidential Advising
• Vision, Values and Policies
• Research Communities
• Physician Scientists

How much do MD/PhD graduates make as professors?

• Thread starter deleted993768
• Start date Apr 9, 2020

deleted993768

• Apr 9, 2020

MSTPadvocate

Full member.

I was paid at going MD rate despite the fact that I didn't do anything clinical for the first 2 years. Some of my other offers split it into clinical v. research time - ie if an assistant prof doing research only made 100K and a full time clinician made 200K and they were on the traditional 80/20 split, they would make 80K + 40K = 120K. Each school does it differently and this is why you want to make yourself highly competitive (K08 + Burroughs + papers + clearly fundable project) so you have negotiating power.  

MSTP Director

It depends upon the specialty, geography and school type (public/private) - in that order. In the end, you must eat what you kill. You earn RVUs from clinical experiences, and fund your research time from grants and/or endowments. In general, given your specialty, there is a range of $ based upon AAMC tables (specialty, geography and school type) with information on 25%, 50%, and 75% for Instructors, Assistant Professors, Associate Professors, Chief of service, and Chairs of Dept. These numbers are also averages for the multiple years of each stage. So, as you jump, don't expect 50% level (unless a rock star). My best advise is to negotiate FTE time rather than money. It will come, whereas time is more difficult to earn it/protect it. For many years, I was as an Assistant Professor, started at 5%, then as I got funded jumped to 30%, got recruited to another institution at 50%, promoted to 50%, but eventually at 95% for specialty/rank.  

• Apr 10, 2020

I think you should expect around 85-110k if you are requesting >80% research: In psychiatry, an MD/PhD recently got hired as an assistant professor fresh out of residency for 85K per year. This person did not have a K award and will have around 90% research time. At my previous institution, MD/PhDs in cognitive specialties (e.g., internal medicine, neurology, psychiatry) have been hired at most 130K as an assistant professor for >80% research. They are usually hired at around 110K per year. This was told to me by my former research advisor who is involved in hiring decisions.  

That would be in the Coasts not inside the country, where $140-160K might happen....  

So I guess if you want to get payed more, you'd have to commit to more clinical time?  

sourpatch fetish

Elephant_enthusiast said: So I guess if you want to get payed more, you'd have to commit to more clinical time? Click to expand...

Will Walk Rope for Sandwich

• Apr 11, 2020

In academia, you still get to make >250K just doing good research as physician-scientist... plus a lot of other perks that your practice has to pay for if in PP.  

Fencer said: In academia, you still get to make >250K just doing good research as physician-scientist... plus a lot of other perks that your practice has to pay for if in PP. Click to expand...

Possibly 10-12 years .... However, this is something that you then earn for another 20+ years..  

• Apr 12, 2020

Fencer said: Possibly 10-12 years .... However, this is something that you then earn for another 20+ years.. Click to expand...

Doctor Professor

There is a WIDE range of starting salaries for physician scientists and is very field and institution specific. And it definitely depends on what the candidate brings to the table. I’ve seen starting offers from ~ 50% starting clinical salary to 100% clinical salary (within same institutoon, at tenure track research vs tenure track clinical), the difference largely being whether you are applying to a big name coast school or not. Of course there is a ton of variation. In some fields it’s still feasible to start at 300s with 80% protected time and significant startup, for the right candidate.  

StIGMA said: There is a WIDE range of starting salaries for physician scientists and is very field and institution specific. And it definitely depends on what the candidate brings to the table. I’ve seen starting offers from ~ 50% starting clinical salary to 100% clinical salary (within same institutoon, at tenure track research vs tenure track clinical), the difference largely being whether you are applying to a big name coast school or not. Of course there is a ton of variation. In some fields it’s still feasible to start at 300s with 80% protected time and significant startup, for the right candidate. Click to expand...

tortuga87 said: Yeah but let's not get the expectations of the new people up too high so that they end up disappointed. Most MD/PhDs who shoot for a faculty position with majority research will make 80-160K in academia, towards the higher end if you want to work with fewer research colleagues and maybe feel a little out of place and lonely. Let's not forget that this also occurs in your mid-30s, and you make ~250K in your late 40s if you work hard and do not bail. In contrast, 250K is what your clinical colleagues make in their early 30s. This is a common theme in academia. It is hierarchical which means that you start at the bottom of the barrel, in a pile of manure. You then crawl your way up over the years. In order to sustain a solid hierarchy, you need very low to very high. This is just another example of the Pareto principle, and it applies to virtually any large organization. Click to expand...

I have the following questions: How much would you make if you go to industry after residency/fellowship? Are there opportunities to still practice medicine if you go into industry? What disadvantages are there to working in industry?  

For industry - Pharma Entry level positions are 120-200 K depending upon responsibilities. Difficult to go up salary wise... One day you are working on Epilepsy, tomorrow you are moved to AD (if they keep you) due to C-suite/marketing changes.  

inert protoplasm

• Apr 13, 2020

My impression is that the senior academics I see in my field are not relying on salary for the majority of their income. Based on the extensive lists of disclosures for industry consulting and paid talks, I'm guessing this must be a very lucrative side hustle. Others are running small and extremely expensive boutique private practices on the side. Personally I don't understand how it works out to do research for a salary much above the NIH cap. How does the institution justify eating that cost? Higher salary is a double edged sword because it gets increasingly difficult to buy out your own time. Trying to wedge a clinician's salary into a research budget is an exercise in futility. You end up doing a ton of work for too little protected time because the actual effort the work takes doesn't fit in the budget. My current institution gets around this by providing a 'clinical supplement,' meaning you make slightly more salary for FTE spent in clinical care, but budget for the lower salary rate on research projects.  

• Apr 14, 2020

kepler16b said: Is the compensation better or worse at coastal elite schools? Click to expand...

Depends... super star? but in general, better in the institutions that are ranked (USNWR) between 25-75, particularly at private institutions.  

CheGuevaraMD

• Jun 27, 2020

On average, academic salaries are low because NIH grants are relatively small, and there's no meaningful private sector alternative. Clinical salaries are higher because over half of Americans have private insurance. Universities can pay professors more through the use of general funds, but they are hurting now both clinically and academically due to COVID. There is not really a way to earn more and be a productive academic without university slush funds, as every research hour you trade for the clinic leads to lower scientific productivity.  

interstellar taco

• Jun 29, 2020

I am an MD/PhD surgical subspecialist in a big city at a top 10 institution for my (and most) field(s). I was hired at 50/50 clinical/research with a several-year guarantee (being purposely vague since I know colleagues read this board). The guarantee was $300k, though I know colleagues at my and similar institutions who had guarantees of $275k-$375k, with variable research percentages. After guarantee is over, the expectation is that I'll have grant funding to help support my salary. Note: I've found that in surgical fields, the whole "% research" thing (e.g., my 50/50 setup) is basically just a paper commitment. If you're at a strong institution, you can decide how much or how little clinical work you want to do. If you've got a busy, buzzing lab with grant funding and a competent team, nobody is going to scrutinize a decision to do 4 days of clinic/surgery or structure your days so you can maximize RVU, if that's important to you. But getting the lab to be productive is a multi-year feat so most people (including myself) stick to 50% or less of clinical work.  

So, I am assuming the AAMC faculty salary tables are meaningless for physician-scientists? There are some pretty crazy salaries in there but I guess that data is heavily weighted toward pure clinical work. Out of curiosity, is there a way to know which specialties have the biggest discrepancies between purely clinical work and split clinical/research work? My assumption is that procedural or surgical specialties have bigger discrepancies, pathology would have the least, and IM subspecialties are somewhere in the middle. But this is just a guess, there is zero transparency when it comes to salaries.  

• Jul 2, 2020

Many physician-scientists at name-brand state schools have public salary information. You can easily search the names of physician-scientists at these institutions to get an idea of what their total compensation is. Michigan's data are a bit opaque (they only list the state salary component and provide no information on "other compensation," which is the category that includes specialty-specific salary differential, bonuses for clinical work or grant supplementation, etc.). But California and Texas and some other states tend to be much more transparent.  

For Texas, you need to download the data to access "some" of the other compensation. Some bonuses and salaries from VA (or other institutions) are not reported in Texas Tribune salary data (not even in the spreadsheet). The other aspect that is not factored-in, is the relatively generous benefit package with health insurance, disability, and retirement match.  

• Jul 4, 2020

interstellar taco said: I am an MD/PhD surgical subspecialist in a big city at a top 10 institution for my (and most) field(s). I was hired at 50/50 clinical/research with a several-year guarantee (being purposely vague since I know colleagues read this board). The guarantee was $300k, though I know colleagues at my and similar institutions who had guarantees of $275k-$375k, with variable research percentages. After guarantee is over, the expectation is that I'll have grant funding to help support my salary. Note: I've found that in surgical fields, the whole "% research" thing (e.g., my 50/50 setup) is basically just a paper commitment. If you're at a strong institution, you can decide how much or how little clinical work you want to do. If you've got a busy, buzzing lab with grant funding and a competent team, nobody is going to scrutinize a decision to do 4 days of clinic/surgery or structure your days so you can maximize RVU, if that's important to you. But getting the lab to be productive is a multi-year feat so most people (including myself) stick to 50% or less of clinical work. Click to expand...

SurfingDoctor

"good news, everyone".

• Jul 8, 2020

Just because you make the NIH salary cap doesn’t mean it’s a negative balance to the University and often because of that, they float the difference. This is because of 1) it gets the University prestige which brings in addition philanthropy and endowments (which in turn, fund salaries and units and new buildings) and 2) the University makes money off the indirects. In my institution, they collect about 40 cents on the dollar so for a 4 or 5 year R01 with a modular budget, that’s like 150K per year. If you have two R01s, its double. And especially considering that most physicians generate enough RVUs to cover their salary, the salary cap is mostly inconsequential from the University standpoint.  

Similar threads

• stingyepidermis
• Oct 12, 2023
• heartman1998
• Jul 20, 2024

• trilobites10294814
• Jul 24, 2024

• Dec 31, 2023

• May 23, 2024
• This site uses cookies to help personalize content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies and terms of service . Accept Learn more…

• Having forum password update problems? Head over here .
• Eat-Drink-Man-Woman

Does anyone knows the salary of PhD graduate ?

• Thread starter flatterylies
• Start date Sep 25, 2021

More options

Specialkeyboardservice, arch-supremacy member.

• Sep 25, 2021

Heriophant said: Similar to Doctor. After finish, $$ sibei high. You can check Jobstreet all these, min $15,000 above de depending on faculty. Click to expand...

Paging for our edmw PhD @rayzhon  

flatterylies said: Do u all know how’s the pay like ? Sometimes I wonder those people who study so long do they get a high salary or what? Click to expand...

compro_1975

High supremacy member.

About 20k per month  

twinklingstars

Supremacy member.

Artemisia_s said: 4k - 5k for PhD to govt jobs. But PhD waste of time. Slog 4 years no cpf lousy pay/allowance. High fliers with good honours degree alr chiong in that 4 years exceed PhD grad pay liao. Click to expand...

flatterylies

Master member.

compro_1975 said: About 20k per month Click to expand...

Greater Supremacy Member

ducky32 said: Highly depends on what your research is on, I guess. You can see scientist role (PhD required) at A*Star is $4.5k lowest. https://www.mycareersfuture.gov.sg/...rch-entities-6011de1a82cca4a5102a3ec9cf852ce4 Click to expand...

twinklingstars said: Post doc in uni about 4K plus, A*star higher pay, probably can get $5K. Yes agree, unless you go industry, research jobs have no stability. If intend to stay in academia, pay won't get higher much and its hard to get tenure nowadays. Click to expand...

If jobless? 0  

flatterylies said: U study so long only get 5k in A star after getting phd. ? Click to expand...

Senior Member

Majority of the PhDs don't earn a lot compared to those without a PhD. Unless you are aiming to be a university lecturer/prof or PI in research institute, a degree or masters in your area of interest is suffice. You also need take job security into consideration. A lot of the research/postdocs positions are contract based (usually 2-4 years depending on the project) and are funded by projects. No projects = no job. In my opinion money should not be the motivating factor when you are considering whether to do a PhD or not. Most likely you will be disappointed.  

Huh phD starting celery 5k?!! . For guys I assume earliest you can get phD is 29  

Reporting in, private or acad? Private depending on paygrade, usually these people are scouted, 5k and up based on what I know. For senior role usually above 6 starting pay for fresh PhD. Acad, research fellow around 4-6k range depending on credentials, asst prof should be around 6-8k.  

SpecialKeyboardService said: Associate Prof is 20k leh from nus before perks . Got one math PhD teach in JC. Pay grade and cep really ish smelly smelly different. He is hod of my JC somemore as well, on track to be vice principal like those civil service scholar Click to expand...

Depend what job And got experience or not A phd grad with zero experience probably around 4-7k a month only If got 10-15 yrs exp, probably can get 15-20k a month  

fallen1 said: Depend what job And got experience or not A phd grad with zero experience probably around 4-7k a month only If got 10-15 yrs exp, probably can get 15-20k a month Click to expand...

rayzhon said: Around there. But usually in research, your PhD journey will count towards the experience. There are people who get the PhD but their research not much value and very niche, hard to find work also. Click to expand...

Aunt Dino said: @rayzhon Click to expand...

SpecialKeyboardService said: Paging for our edmw PhD @rayzhon Click to expand...

fallen1 said: Research not valued by employer = likely wont even give them a job in the first place Click to expand...

Stack Exchange Network

Stack Exchange network consists of 183 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow , the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers.

Q&A for work

Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search.

Is admission standard for math PhD significantly higher than that for physics PhD?

I'm a student at a small LAC, and I'm considering to apply to both math and physics PhD programs. In my school, which is top 15 but do not have large (20 students in each dep.) or well-known departments for either of these fields, students did significantly better on physics PhD admission than on math PhD admission. For math, many students go instead to master's, and only one or two students can make top 40~70 PhD program per year. For physics, some students went to Caltech, Columbia, UCSB, and other high ranked programs in the last year, which was just as usual. A similar phenomena seem to happen not only in my school. Mathgre.com and Physicsgre.com list applicant profiles and admission results for each PhD program, and they show a similar tendency. For example, students accepted to top pure math PhD programs are exclusively those who got nearly 4.0 GPA, took many grad-level courses, had a significant amount of research experience and come from an undergrad institution with a renowned PhD program. On the other hand, students accepted to top physics PhD programs have more diversity in GPA, their undergrad institution, number of grad-level courses taken and amount of research experience.

What causes this difference? Or is my view wrong? If this difference actually exists, I think the following factors are among the causes:

• Physics PhDs are funded more, and therefore more students can be afforded.
• Physics PhDs have both theoretical and applied subdivisions, while many applied math programs exist as master's programs.
• Math PhDs demand its applicants to take a significant number of grad-level courses, while physics ones don't.

Also, how about the situation when it comes to pure math vs. hep-th in the U.S.?

• mathematics

• 7 Is your first sentence saying that your university 1) is a small liberal arts college, 2) is one of the top 15 universities in the country, and 3) does not have a strong mathematics or physics department? I don't think all three of these can be true simultaneously. –  Tom Church Commented Sep 23, 2015 at 2:46
• 3 I mean it's one of the top 15 LACs in the country, so it's not an university, and the ranking excludes universities. Although it has strong departments in other natural science topics, our math and physics deps are not the ones. 2) and 3) can be simultaneously true only when 1) is also satisfied. –  Math.StackExchange Commented Sep 23, 2015 at 2:51
• 15 I'm a physicist. I'm just speculating, but it seems likely to me that a physics grad student is seen as valuable cheap labor in an experimental research group, whereas a grad student is a burden in both math and theoretical physics. In an area like high-energy particle physics, a grad student is a cog in the wheel. No originality or independence of thought is required. If you're willing to pull cables and debug software, you're an asset. –  user1482 Commented Sep 23, 2015 at 23:35
• Thanks for your comment. In the U.S. is the admission for experimental hep PhD usually separated from the admission for hep-th? I'm not familiar with the process in the U.S., but many PhD programs in the U.S. seem to have the same admission process for both experimental hep and hep-th. If they are not usually separated, do students officially select their "concentration" after entering to the program? –  Math.StackExchange Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 0:31
• 2 @AranKomatsuzaki: Usually you apply to the department as a whole, but you state a likely area of research or whether you're leaning toward theory or experiment. If you say you want to do string theory, your application may be considered more skeptically than if you say you want to be an experimentalist. In the US, there is normally a lot of coursework at the beginning of a PhD program. That coursework is an opportunity for students to get a feel for whether they would be likely to succeed as theorists. –  user1482 Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 15:04

This is an attempt to gather some data supporting or refuting your hypothesis (or rather a slightly different one). Ideally, we would like a direct comparison of admission rates at top places, but I could only find limited data on admissions rates, so let me start elsewhere. At any rate, some of this data may be of interest.

The annual number of bachelor's degrees in physics is about 8000. From the AMS's annual survey , this number for math is about 28,000. This suggests there may be a lot more PhD program applicants for math. However, I don't have data separating out which math degrees are on a math ed track (or similarly for physics, though I guess the numbers are much greater for math ed), and these people are unlikely to pursue PhDs.

What about actual numbers of PhD students? I didn't see 1st year PhD numbers in physics for recent years but this slightly dated data puts it around 3000 new grad students in physics/astronomy (with about 93% aiming for PhDs), whereas the AMS annual survey has around 3600, and around 5000 if you include masters programs. (Stats and biostats is separate with around 2000, I guess including masters.) These statistics also say the number of physics versus math phd's awarded in recent years are pretty similar (about 1500-1600 for physics compared to 1400 for math). So there may be many more "potential" PhD applicants in math, but both math and physics students seem to compete for roughly the same number of slots in grad programs. (I don't know about how many of the PhD enrollments were domestic BS/BA holders, but we might guess the numbers are comparable as about 54% of enrollments were US citizens.)

So the above data tenuously supports your hypothesis. Can we check this with some actual admission rates?

For physics schools, this website has grad school admission rates. For top schools, the admissions rate seems to be around 10-15% (though Penn State seems to be an anomaly). Unfortunately, I don't know such a nice tool for math schools, but a few math departments mention their admission rates. Northwestern is around 17% (about the same as for their physics program, 16.4%). Notre Dame's is around 20% (a little lower than their 26% for physics).

These were all I could easily find and I'm afraid it's not enough to make any real conclusions, but I might speculate that top math phd programs are only somewhat more competitive than top physics ones if at all. (And in terms of undergrad research experience, I would guess that's more common in physics than in math.)

Edit: One qualitative issue for why you're seeing what you're seeing could be that top schools in math get lots of applications and if an admissions committee isn't familiar with a department, it doesn't know how to evaluate a transcript or the letters of recommendation from there, so it will tend to play it safe and accept students from places it's more familiar with. This is one reason why it's very helpful for students at small, relatively unknown schools to do programs like REUs (or a master's first) where a letter writer from there can compare you with a wide range of students. That said, I know many people who have gone straight from small, relatively unknown schools directly to top math PhD programs.

• I really appreciate your effort to gather all these data. I'm surprised to see some of the facts you mentioned and from your link. 1) # of physics bachelor's is only 8k/y. This sounds like physics is one of a few least popular majors among the departments which exist in almost every colleges in the U.S. Maybe media is exaggerating difficulty of physics, and youngsters were discouraged. 2) Acceptance rate of physics programs are much higher than expected (I thought ~5% for top ones). While top math PhD programs enrollment are roughly 20/r, physics –  Math.StackExchange Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 4:08
• PhD seems to have more capacity. 3) Some of lower ranked programs have pretty low acceptance rate. Penn state, while it's ranked high, is probably not for me. 4) This may be a well-known fact, but about a half PhD students in math and physics can't get PhD. The following list of universities attended by math PhD students at Harvard and UC Berkeley gave me an idea of how prestige of undergrad institution matters in admission for math PhD (because better education nurtured better students). reddit.com/r/math/comments/296e60/… –  Math.StackExchange Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 4:12
• 6 That only 8,000 bachelor's degrees are awarded to physics students at American universities annually made my eyes pop out. I would have guessed a much larger figure. So a big +1 for presenting hard data. –  Pete L. Clark Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 5:01
• 3 Another point to consider is that people that end up in physics departments come from a variety of backgrounds. I'm a physicist myself but we have plenty of chemists, materials scientists, IT guys and the odd mathematician in my department. I would guess it's mostly only mathematicians trying to make it to maths PhD programs. –  Miguel Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 6:24
• 2 @AranKomatsuzaki Regarding your point 4), I'm guessing that most of the PhD students at top schools can get PhDs. At Caltech in math, almost everyone who started finished, and those who didn't were usually the ones who decided it wasn't for them during their 1st year, so I don't think that's as bleak as it seems. Also, see edit about undergrad institution. –  Kimball Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 12:29

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for browse other questions tagged phd mathematics physics ..

• Featured on Meta
• Preventing unauthorized automated access to the network
• User activation: Learnings and opportunities
• Join Stack Overflow’s CEO and me for the first Stack IRL Community Event in...

Hot Network Questions

• Is there a way to have my iPhone register my car which doesn't have carplay, only for the "Car is parked at"-feature?
• Pulling myself up with a pulley attached to myself
• Can a floppy disk be wiped securely using the Windows format command with the passes-parameter?
• Is Mankiw 's answer really correct? The expected benefit from installing the traffic light. ("Principles of Economics 9e" by Mankiw.)
• God and Law of Identity Paradox
• Is a private third party allowed to take things to court?
• 2000s creepy independant film with a voice-over of a radio host giving bad self-help advice
• How to push 10-ft long 4" PVC pipe into 90-deg Elbow Hub?
• What is the mechanical equivalent of an electronic AND gate?
• Is “No Time To Die” the first Bond film to feature children?
• Did Gauss really call Archimedes an idiot?
• How can moving observer explain non-simultaneity?
• What made scientists think that chemistry is reducible to physics and when did that happen?
• Is BitLocker susceptible to any known attacks other than bruteforcing when used with a very strong passphrase and no TPM?
• Print 4 billion if statements
• Can ATmega328P microcontroller work at 3.3 V with 8 MHz oscillator
• Could you suffocate someone to death with a big enough standing wave?
• Can a US president put a substantial tariff on cars made in Mexico, within the confines of USMCA?
• Can I breed fish in Minecraft?
• Day Convolution of Sheaves
• "Chrisma" and "Him"
• What is an ellipse in infinite-dimensional spaces?
• Is the Earth still capable of massive volcanism, like the kind that caused the formation of the Siberian Traps?
• Does the old type of rubber hose Dunlop valves haves any pros compared to the modern ones without rubber?